Post by Ibrahimi on Nov 28, 2015 16:03:06 GMT -5
I have been on and off of Quranist forums because of the volatility of Quranist circles and the frustration of not being able to come to a common understanding and start something organized and material for Quranists.
With that said, Wakas and I came to the conclusion of two salaat a day in two very different ways. He was able to confirm that outside of the details of the hadeeth concerning the Ascension Muslims had a ritualistic prayer that was made specifically twice a day. My method was taking the more ambiguous verses about the timing of Salaat and whenever possible reducing to the more explicit timings of other verses. In my study all the verses about the timing of Salaat can be reduced to dawn and dusk. Other possible reading for timings, in my opinion become not obligatory, but still very acceptable, so in the language of Classical Arabic scholarship those times other than dawn and dusk become musta7abb but not fard in anyway only two timings are fard as far as I see it. Early Muslims may have prayed more than this on their own volition but as far as he (Wakas) and I are concerned there seem to be only two mandatory ritual Salaat in the Quran, dawn and dusk.
If you agree with these two times of Salaat I would like to open up a conversation with you on other details (the nature/definition of rak'ah, what can/should be said during prayer, and possible other bigger Quranic issues). I want to start with these two times a day as a common point. If you don't believe that two salaat a day is true or that salaat is something ritualistic or physical please don't comment. I respect your right to believe in what you believe and to disagree with me. However, the purpose of this thread is to start talking to those who agree with this, not to argue with those who do not agree. Thank you and Salaam.
free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601309.msg261289#msg261289
peace all,
Very recently, by chance, I came across an entry in Ibn Kathir's tafsir in which he stated there were only two salat per day, with a possible night vigil during the night, in early islam, prior to the so-called "ascension / night journey" (isra and miraj), after which it became 5.
I was somewhat stunned as I had never read this before, and when I posted this info in the forum, it seems many/all were unaware of this too. After doing some research I found the following article by Uri Rubin which proves beyond doubt, from the Traditional Islam sources themselves, that it was only two salat (what they call "prayer") per day in the earliest days.
If some of you are wondering why this is so significant, it is because most long term forum members here (including myself) have thought that The Quran only mentions a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond per day.
See: www.scribd.com/ahadith_studies
or Now available in word text file:
www.islam-and-muslims.com/MORNING-EVENING-PRAYERS-EARLY-ISLAM.docx (right click, save as)
It is very very interesting.
Note: there is significant variance/contradiction in the timings and sources in the above article (as would be expected in hearsay), but the point of two still stands.
With that said, Wakas and I came to the conclusion of two salaat a day in two very different ways. He was able to confirm that outside of the details of the hadeeth concerning the Ascension Muslims had a ritualistic prayer that was made specifically twice a day. My method was taking the more ambiguous verses about the timing of Salaat and whenever possible reducing to the more explicit timings of other verses. In my study all the verses about the timing of Salaat can be reduced to dawn and dusk. Other possible reading for timings, in my opinion become not obligatory, but still very acceptable, so in the language of Classical Arabic scholarship those times other than dawn and dusk become musta7abb but not fard in anyway only two timings are fard as far as I see it. Early Muslims may have prayed more than this on their own volition but as far as he (Wakas) and I are concerned there seem to be only two mandatory ritual Salaat in the Quran, dawn and dusk.
If you agree with these two times of Salaat I would like to open up a conversation with you on other details (the nature/definition of rak'ah, what can/should be said during prayer, and possible other bigger Quranic issues). I want to start with these two times a day as a common point. If you don't believe that two salaat a day is true or that salaat is something ritualistic or physical please don't comment. I respect your right to believe in what you believe and to disagree with me. However, the purpose of this thread is to start talking to those who agree with this, not to argue with those who do not agree. Thank you and Salaam.
free-minds.org/forum/index.php?topic=9601309.msg261289#msg261289
peace all,
Very recently, by chance, I came across an entry in Ibn Kathir's tafsir in which he stated there were only two salat per day, with a possible night vigil during the night, in early islam, prior to the so-called "ascension / night journey" (isra and miraj), after which it became 5.
I was somewhat stunned as I had never read this before, and when I posted this info in the forum, it seems many/all were unaware of this too. After doing some research I found the following article by Uri Rubin which proves beyond doubt, from the Traditional Islam sources themselves, that it was only two salat (what they call "prayer") per day in the earliest days.
If some of you are wondering why this is so significant, it is because most long term forum members here (including myself) have thought that The Quran only mentions a minimum of two daily regular/timed salat/bond per day.
See: www.scribd.com/ahadith_studies
or Now available in word text file:
www.islam-and-muslims.com/MORNING-EVENING-PRAYERS-EARLY-ISLAM.docx (right click, save as)
It is very very interesting.
Note: there is significant variance/contradiction in the timings and sources in the above article (as would be expected in hearsay), but the point of two still stands.